BNW FACE-2-FACE: OHANEZE ON THE "HOT SEAT" - PART II

Welcome back to the BiafraNigeriaWorld Hot Seat. This is the conclusion of our interview with Honorable Emma Okocha, Publicity Secretary for Ohaneze and Author of Blood on the Niger.

Hon. Okocha: Before now, Ohaneze had been taunted, you don't have a candidate, you made a declaration. Suddenly we are approaching zero hour, and suddenly we have about five candidates, credible candidates.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Who are they?

Hon. Okocha: We have General Ojukwu who has declared his intention to run. He is a credible candidate and a credible member of Ohaneze. We are proud of him. We have Vice President Ekwueme. There is every indication that he may try again under the platform of PDP. Remember, he was the leading candidate at the last election before the coalition forces of northern generals, America and the retrogrades of Nigerian politics pulled Obasanjo from prison to pit him at Jos. We have Dr. Idika Kanu, a World Bank expert who has expressed his willingness to run. We have Senator Right Honorable Chuba Okadigbo.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Have you mentioned John Nwodo?

Hon. Okocha: Go ahead, put his name there.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Are those the people that you think will make good candidates or are those people who have actually said that they would run for president?

Hon. Okocha: They have indicated their willingness. And you know in politics forty-eight hours are enough to overthrow the vote. So what we're saying is that these candidates, any day, before any theatre, before any audience, give them any pulpit, before any studio against Obasanjo, and they will floor him on any issue. Economics, governance, vision, charisma. I don't see Obasanjo standing on the same platform with any of those candidates on any issue. Now nobody will say Ohaneze has no credible candidates. We have passed that stage.

In Ohaneze, we try as much as possible to have a level playing field because, as I told you, it's an amalgam of all that. Once you are an Igbo man, we'll accommodate you.

Put Senator Ikeze in there because I think he did make his intention known. He was a soldier that fought against Biafra. And you're saying that because of that he should not be qualified?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: He is qualified to run?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. But, he should not be qualified to flag the Igbo platform.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: That wasn't the question. The question was would Ohaneze deem him unqualified?

Hon. Okocha: We have in Ohaneze, in order to reach a consensus, because now it's going to be difficult to get a consensus candidate before now the political parties will go for their own political nominees. What we're going home to do now as a result of our meetings with World Igbo Congress and talking with people like you, will be to bring all these candidates, line them up and ask them the following questions: 1) Who is your father? 2) What is your educational background? 3) Can we see your manifesto? 4) Can you define the Igbo interest? 4) How do you intend to win this election? 5) Are we sponsoring you? Crucially, 6) what type of Christian church do you attend? 7) Does he have a history of Sharia conduct? 8) What have you done over the years for your community to convince us that when you get there, you will continue in that regard? 9) What have you done for your community? And then finally, 10) are you ready, after you win the presidency, six months after, one year after, to face a panel? Because we're going to have a serious panel headed by a bishop and retired justices

BiafraNigeriaWorld: What bishop? Which denomination?

Hon. Okocha: We'll get a bishop. It could be an Anglican bishop or a Catholic bishop. It will be a panel independent of Ohaneze to ask these questions. There'll be marks. And then afterward, these people will, through short circuit television, address the Igbo people. What are you going to do? What have you done before? What type of church do you attend? Who is your father? Most of the time, we don't know who these people's fathers are. Who is supporting you? How do you intend to win the election?

So when these questions are asked, and they are answered by these candidates, we'll probably be able to arrive at a consensus candidate.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: What would be an example of a bad source of support?

Hon. Okocha: A bad source of support?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: For an Igboman who is running for president, when you ask the questions, "who is backing you?" "who is funding your campaign?" what would be, quite frankly, a wrong answer?

Hon. Okocha: If the candidate is unable to identify his source of support, because most of the time these people are supported from external group that are anti our interests. I'm talking about Northerners, international groups, Obasanjo supported a lot of our governors, a lot of our senators. He's anti-our people. We'll prefer somebody that is independent.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So, basically, any candidate who is being funded by Northerners or any of these external groups that you mentioned would be disqualified?

Hon. Okocha: Not necessarily. If we have a candidate being supported by a Northerner, just for the mere fact that the candidate may not have the money, enough financial engine, to satisfy the conditionalities that you must scale to be able to get to the Nigerian people; you have to pay for media, you have to pay for some logistics. Supposing he has a sponsor from anywhere, he has to explain. We don't want any stitches.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why cant' Ohaneze sponsor its own candidate(s)?

Hon. Okocha: Put it down for me. That's a new one. That's great. We can then decide that we don't want you to get the sponsor, we don't understand it, we don't know the agreement behind it. But, we want to sponsor him. Can we, can Ohaneze, paternity of the Holy Ghost, in Switzerland, in Japan, in Alaska, in Mexico, in South Africa, Mozambique, Cameroon, Bamenda, can we sponsor this candidate?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why not?

Hon. Okocha: I think we can. So all the Igbos in America, all of them are asked to put in a $100 each. I think we'll have enough money.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Now would be a good time to ask you. How is Ohaneze currently funded?

Hon. Okocha: Ohaneze is not being funded by anybody. That's why we have only one computer, and they've been fighting to keep business as usual. The young Igbos of London, a group just like the professionals, are on the London government houses, the British government. Most of them were born there. Their parents were those that didn't come back to BiafraNigeria during the Biafran/Nigeria war. They could not come back. Because of the war, they cannot come back. They speak a smattering of Igbo. They would like to speak Igbo. They have Igbo language clinics. They are ready to make Ohaneze interactive so that people will know about anything we're doing in Enugu. They are ready to donate facilities with computers. But there was some opposition back home.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Who doesn't want that?

Hon. Okocha: We hope when I come in now because of the great meetings I've had with our people here, I'll go in there and this time, I don't have to spend a lot of time to consult convince people. I'm putting the computers there, employ people to start working. Most of these un-traditions will be taken care of. Like you told me about Igbonet.com. They don't think like that.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: They don't think globally?

Hon. Okocha: One governor will give them one million, they'll pocket it. Whereas the opposing group, the Afenifere, the Yoruba group, every governor every month has an obligation to donate N1.5 to Afenifere. The members of the congress, the senators of the assembly put N500,000 every month, and so on down the line. So they have enough cash to do their jobs. We don't have such things. So we're not having any major funding from governors.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Now that you have this idea of Ohaneze itself sponsoring its own candidate, and you're going to propose that all Igbo groups from around the world donate money, what kind of system of checks and balances do you have in place to ensure that there will be no questions of embezzlement, funds will be protected and used for the purposes for which they were collected?

Hon. Okocha: This is your idea. You have to advise me. This a new idea that just in. You know why the Igbo couldn't come out in time? Because they were looking at their war chests. They couldn't raise N1 billion individually. Its not like they were not ready to come out, but they couldn't.

Obasanjo in the North coalesced. They were looking at the election by how much money they had. This system solves the problem, so you have to work on it and tell us what to do after it is done.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Okay, let's continue. What structure does Ohaneze have in place for punishing erring members and do you think Ohaneze as presently constituted, has any clout, especially if Igbo senators could decide to ignore you and go ahead to choose Obasanjo as a candidate?

Hon. Okocha: Ohaneze is in the process of sanctioning erring members. As we've established here, Igbos are republicans. We are not government. We don't have sanctioning powers. Culturally, that's why we're going with the chiefs and going with the Igbo unions. Those unions will be on parade in Aba for the first time. We intend to enforce our sanctions from now on. In fact, we were to de-robe some of them who went to Otah to ask Obasanjo to run for reelection and came to Umuahia. We allowed them to mingle with us. Right now we are in support of the MASSOB declaration that those people will no longer be accepted in Igbo meetings.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Are there any other kinds of sanctions?

Hon. Okocha: Not yet. They are working on it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: How do you propose to enforce the sanctions that you do have? What type of mechanism do you have in place?

Hon. Okocha: We are thinking about it, knowing that we cannot, by law, just because somebody defaulted. We can't. But we want to have a relationship with MASSOB group and Bakassi. Remember the reaction in Aba during the killings in Kaduna. I will not tell you what Ohaneze did, but there was a reaction. We are at that stage now.

Secondly, if the senators go on top of the precipice with us during this election year, after the election year, we will see who will default anymore against Ohaneze. That is all I want to say on this point.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Are you saying that Ohaneze has laid down the law?

Hon. Okocha: We cannot spit fire anymore and not follow it up.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Do you plan to teach them what leadership is all about? Does Ohaneze plan to show these governors how to be leaders?

Hon. Okocha: Some governors have done well. Others have not done well.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: We are asking because many of the Ohaneze chieftans were governors and are experienced.

Hon. Okocha: No, we don't plan to lecture them on governance. Our job is to monitor the different public officers to see if they are performing according to the interests of the Igbo people. Ultimately, the people will decide whether these governors performed or not. It is the job of the electorate. Our job is not to go and lecture on how to govern. As far as we are concerned, it is for us to let out the issues. Our governors are messing up. They have not been able to give the people the hope. There is a difference between winning elections and establishing good governance. We haven't seen it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So a lot of them haven't been able to follow through with keeping their campaign promises?

Hon. Okocha: That's right.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: What is your take on the view expressed by some that the Igbo governors should pull resources together for some public, tangible projects like Power generation and Waste management?

Hon. Okocha: More than that, we believe that the Biafran revolution, people were able to go into manufacturing during the exigency of the war. We were able to manufacture our own war arsenal. We were able to manufacture home-made facilities. We were able to manufacture matches, bricks, bicycles, cars, anything to survive the war. We were able to feed our people despite the blockade. We were able to organize a land army; we were able to refine our own oil. How is it that presently, with all the advantages Eastern Nigeria could not reinvent the Biafran record in agriculture, governance and industrialization? The scientists are there. So we are disappointed. We don't need Abuja, we don't need the World Bank. The resources are there because there are people all over the world, in England, in America. These governors should be out there attracting these brains who are working in all these environments. They have not done that. All they are doing is genuflecting in Abuja, celebrating power, everyday going to chieftancy titles, organizing political meetings. Since the campaign started, it has not ended. They have not sat down. They are just taking the same cocktail from the presidency. Everybody is traveling around the world, so we are disappointed and we thouhgt the governors in the Southeast, the Igbo governors, should not be part of the Nigeriana, the celebration, and the wastage that has become the fulcrum of the PDP government.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You fully acknowledge that these resources are available. How do you plan to use them? Do you have a plan for ensuring that in the future, these governors start utilizing these resources that are there to improve the situation?

Hon. Okocha: We hope so, as Ohaneze gets into the forefront. I've told you how we have organizational problems. We've just gone into the activist part, now we are given a political role to play. As we emerge from one sector into another vista, we believe an Ohaneze political committee, government and administration should be able to advise the governors to go look for the Okigbo blueprints on how Eastern Nigeria developed to that stage. Before the war, Eastern Nigeria was regarded by the World Bank as the fastest developing nation in the world. Our economy was farther in rating than Malaysia, the Asian Tigers, Singapore. Palm produce was Eastern Nigeria's major export. What has happened to palm produce in Eastern Nigeria? All governors are going to Abuja every second, having all these PDP meetings. All they are interested in now is coming back for a second term when they have not performed for four years. We can excuse the other governors of the other states. But an Igbo governor, knowing the history, deprivation of the people, should have not become part of this adage.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So you don't have a definitive plan right now?

Hon. Okocha: That's what we are saying. Those questions, what is your educational background, what have you done for the community? All these things are encapsulated in those two crucial questions. The new people coming in to contest elections either in the local government area or as a gubernatorial candidate should be able to answer these questions, and then we'll know where they are coming from.

The major Igbo interest, as I told you, apart from checking erosion and getting back to the language, is meritocracy. That is our abiding faith. Igbo believe in merit. These governors, and not only the governors, but the public officers and those in the assembly, must have merit. Look at Anyim. If you're not careful, you look stupid looking at him. If he appears here, his stupidity will infect you. So we don't want such characters to lead the Igbo race. What has he done now? Four years are gone. He's very popular in the senate, but he makes sure that the senators go around the world. He gives them all the oil that they need. But what has he done in Abakiliki? Abakiliki is a fruit basket. Abakiliki could feed the entire Western Africa. You can plant anything there, cabbage, rice. He hasn't done anything. Look at the roads. So this is what we're talking about and next time around. Not only the governors, the public officers of Igboland, whether in the local government, whether in the national assembly, and the ministers, have been colossal failures.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Let us shift the focus a little. Ohaneze has been criticized for failing to publicly and boldly condemn murders and other atrocities committed against Nd'Igbo throughout Nigeria. What is your response to that criticism?

Hon. Okocha: That is a fallacy. I told you I have a petition. Ohaneze is the first Igbo group that went and petitioned the federal government, and even asked for indemnities, damages, and accused the federal government of genocide. We were in Enugu, at the public hearing. That was the greatest showing of Ohaneze under the sun. I don't know whether this is debatable. Whoever told you that, it is a fallacy. Continuously, we have been fighting this.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: There were specific incidents, like the killings in Kaduna. When the killings started in Kaduna, it brought out a lot of the anger that you see now. It was the killings that really spawned a lot of the Biafra movement. Much of it started after the Kaduna massacre of 2000. Before then, some people that didn't even care about Nigeria or Biafra, decided, enough of this nonsense. Take your stupid country and go. At that time, Ohaneze was really nowhere to be seen. You didn't know there was any group called Ohaneze. You heard people like Orji Uzor Kalu step up and say if you kill anymore Igbo, we're going to retaliate. Where was Ohaneze in 2001 following Kaduna?

Hon. Okocha: Ohaneze, as I told you, is very conservative. Before Ohaneze makes any statement, the convention is that it has to be cleared. Nobody comes out and makes a statement on behalf of Ohaneze. Even I, as the Publicity Secretary, cannot come here and make a statement. Before I started talking to you, I had to consult with Enugu, and Enugu had to clear certain groups such as your group. So that nobody comes tomorrow and defaults a statement I make. There's no dictator. Ohaneze was on top of the Kaduna crisis. They made sure that these long buses, Ugbo Ndi Jews, made sure that the owners of those vehicles, "Ekene Dili Chukwu" and "The Young Shall Grow" went to the North and brought back people free of charge. We did a lot.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Did Ohaneze pay Ekene Dili Chukwu and The Young Shall Grow to defray their costs? We've read that the cost of transportation actually doubled that day when the massacre was going on.

Hon. Okocha: Yes, you can trust Igbos to make money out of blood. We are talking about what Ohaneze did. I don't know what Igbos did. Ohaneze intervened. Certain Igbos, as usual, will do what they are known for. They will make money out of blood.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: I guess that's a sore spot. What effort has Ohaneze made to help our veterans who fought in the Biafra/Nigeria war? Is there a program to help alleviate their sufferings and pains?

Hon. Okocha: No.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You haven't addressed that issue?

Hon. Okocha: No, but the claims, in fact I'm going to get you copies of the Ohaneze petition, they made claims. Ohaneze is ready, if after the Oputa panel white paper is published, and those claims are not addressed, we are going to the World Court.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why has Ohanaeze failed to address the issue of a memorial to fallen Biafran heroes and heroines? In 2000, there was to have been a re-burial ceremony at Uli and Obasanjo and some Igbo men, that some of us call efulefu, including Governor Mbadinuju thwarted those plans. Is that the last word on the re-burial?

Hon. Okocha: No. I'm an executive member of Ohaneze, I was on the other side as Ojukwu that there must be a memorial. Even in my book, I am a victim of the genocide. I support totally the Uli exercise.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Your parents?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. What happened was there was division in modalities. Some people said there should be a symbolic re-burial; others said there should be physical remembrance in the way of building a monument. Then there was intrusion from the federal authorities mainly because of the impact such an exercise will have on their purported control of our soul. So they fought it. The last is not out. The young Turks in Ohaneze are working on it because we believe remembering those departed souls will help build our spiritual bonding. That will help in our movement in reclaiming our dues in Nigeria.

Nigeria must pay for that. There should be a standing monument, openly, remembering the departed heroes of the Biafran revolutionary war. But those foreigners, there were black Americans who flew planes there and got shot down. There was a black American family that came to the Uli airport in their own airplane and they were shot and killed there. The plane crashed. There were countless Catholic missionaries, Caritas, nuns and reverend fathers who lost their lives. There were others who were bringing in food, the Red Cross. We are due for a monument and we shall support it. I want to assure our people that we don't have to wait for Ohaneze to do these types of things. Any group and come and set up a monument. I don’t' see anybody doing it. Must it be Ohaneze? Why should we wait for any government? Anybody can set up a monument. Set something up somewhere. Whoever has support from the village or wherever they're offered land. We can build the monument somewhere in Lanham here. What do you think?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: In Lanham? We have to build the monument in Biafra, in Igboland. Don't we?

Hon. Okocha: So is not Ohaneze putting Mbadinuju up to it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Well, Mbadinuju was the one, who, as governor of Anambra State, opposed the reburial at Uli. Did he not?

Hon. Okocha: He's from Uli.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Right and he came up with an excuse why it wasn't going to happen. And when Igbo Day came, Ojukwu was in Umahia and Ohaneze was in Enugu because Ojukwu wanted to go to Uli and was thwarted.

Hon. Okocha: So it was not just an Ohaneze problem.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Did Mbadinuju not go to Enugu? He was in league with Ohaneze. Was he not?

Hon. Okocha: No. There was no governor there. I was there. I was the M.C. There was no governor available. Everybody was afraid to identify with Igbo Day. Ekwueme wasn't there. I went to Lagos at 2 am to fetch the MASSOB leader. And then I was sacked the following day. Why did I bring MASSOB? They queried.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You were sacked for bringing MASSOB?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. They wouldn't entertain me any longer as the Chairman of Publicity. But later on my case was made. When Uwazurike came, he took the whole Enugu in and when he finished his speech, he went into the crowd and that was the end. And there was nobody to move the crowd, in my thinking, if Ojukwu had to go to Umuahia. Okadigbo was slated to speak. Okadigbo turned tail and all the governors abandoned ship.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: So Uwazurike was in Enugu and not Umuahia?

Hon. Okocha: He was headed to Umuahia. I told him if he didn't come to our own, Ohaneze would be finished. We would lose credibility. So he came to Enugu because Umaya was not a show. The governor didn't want to identify with Ojukwu equally.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why did Ohaneze fail to speak up when a responsible Igbo with family was publicly humiliated and flogged for drinking a beverage of his choosing after we had been told Sharia was for Muslims only? The opinion out here is that notable Ohaneze members go underground during the Sharia upheavals only to resurface when all is calm and the Igbo mass grave has been covered. Do you think such people are deserving of Igbo trust and do you think it is fair to deny Igbo the dead bodies of their loved ones for a befitting burial even at a so called democratic peace time?

Hon. Okocha: These are not dire options, because you are talking about Gideon, the man that was beheaded. All these cases were forwarded to the Oputa panel and we had complete hearings on them. Witnesses organized by Ohaneze testified.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: We have been waiting to read a press release from Ohaneze condemning the recent insult on Ojukwu and Igbo by an awusa-fulani in denying Ojukwu the right to an award in a university in Igboland. Why are you taking so long? If Abubakar Rimi, the unapologetic jihadist will receive a University of Calabar award, why on earth will somebody even think of denying the former Governor of the Eastern Region and former head of State of Biafra an award in his clan?

Hon. Okocha: What award is it?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Ojukwu was recently recommended for an honorary doctorate degree at the Nnamdi azikiwe University in Awka.

Hon. Okocha: I really want to know in which area of study, but we do not support the fact that he was denied the honor. I believe Ojukwu is as qualified as any Nigerian to get it. Ohaneze will not support any denial to such a prominent Nigerian. We didn't make any statement because we don't make statements on personalities. We make statements on the Igbo interests, if there is something serious on the Igbo interest. Ojukwu, like any other Nigerian, should never be denied what is due him by universities. Universities are independent.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: The reason given for denying him was that Ojukwu might use the opportunity to campaign for and Igbo president. So that would make it an Igbo issue. Don't you think so?

Hon. Okocha: I think Ohaneze condemns such attitude. If it is from the federal government, we condemn it, even if its coming too late, we condemn it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Are you going to do something about it?

Hon. Okocha: What can we do about it? What I'm saying is that this is not a crucial Igbo interest that somebody is made a doctor of something. A prominent Nigerian, a prominent Igbo leader, we don't accept that. I don't think it is as crucial as killing Igbos or denying Igbos their rights. We are interested in general Igbo core issues, not individuals.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Ojukwu is a little bit more than just an individual in Igboland. He is a symbol for better or for worse, with all his failings and his strengths and successes, and when Ojukwu is slighted in Igboland, especially when the slight carries a Hausa-Fulani face and signature, it is a slight on Nd'Igbo as a people. Ojukwu is not just another Igboman. I'm sure if it was another Igbo, say one of the One-Nigerianas, he wouldn't have been denied the award. Don't you see that?

Hon. Okocha: I agree with you. I'm sure it has been condemned by other Igbo. It doesn't have to be Ohaneze. Let us have a focus. Many things have been denied Ekwueme, Zik before he died, much worse. He was called names.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: In Igboland?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. We have our perspectives. You can't expect Ohaneze to go out every time any Igbo any individual is denied his rights in Nigeria to go out to the microphone, talking about it. We are talking on Igbo interests, and I'm telling you serious issues like erosion, language, denial of our Igbo top commanders in the army and airforce. These are the areas we talked about, not individuals. Individuals are not that important.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: The Igbo soldiers being denied promotions in the Nigerian army, are those not individuals? I am spending more time on this because when it bodes ill for Igbo people when the Hausa-Fulani are able to block an Igbo from receiving a degree in Igboland, a degree that is not going to put him in power over anybody. You say you want to take control of Igbo territory, then what do we have when outsiders call the shots about who may be honored in Igboland? In this case, we read that the Vice Chancellor of that university already approved the award.

Hon. Okocha: So what stopped it?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You don't know? What stopped it was that somebody, a Northerner named Ali, saw it as something that wasn't just being done to Emeka Ojukwu, but to Nd'Igbo. The Hausa-Fulani Chancellor of that school got involved. Didn't you know that? If it is so important to the North, why not to Ohaneze?

Hon. Okocha: Why should Ohaneze's condemnation be of any relevance? They should go ahead and give the honor and if they refuse they should go to court. Even if we condemn it so what? What I'm saying is that we don't approve that he was denied his right.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Now that we are talking about General Ojukwu, what is the extent of his involvement in Ohaneze?

Hon. Okocha: He is one of our leaders. He was at Umuahia. He is always prominent in many of our monthly meetings. I will follow it.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: I mean what is his position in the organization?

Hon. Okocha: He is one of our leaders.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: You said earlier that you had a chair person, etc.

Hon. Okocha: No, he doesn't belong to the cabinet. He is above the cabinet. What is he going to be, secretary? He is one of the leaders. Anywhere we want to go, if we want to talk to President Obasanjo or if its anything big, he is always there. Most of the time he speaks on behalf of Ohaneze.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Some Igbo feel that AlaIgbo has evolved in a most negative dimension. Ala Igbo was seen as one where every man ruled his own house and the sanctity of human life was upheld. Egwu and Anyim disagree in Ebonyi and a lot of Igbo lives are wasted; Nnamani and friends disagree and lives are lost in Enugu. Pray, tell, what is going on? When did AlaIgbo become a feudal kingdom where talakawas or almajris give their lives for the pleasure of the feudal lords? What do you think is responsible for this trend?

Hon. Okocha: This situation is a big worry. The big worry to Ohaneze and to the majority of Igbo is that our ability to govern has gone down the precipice. We cannot control thugerry as I was saying earlier. These entities, these states, especially Enugu and Ebonyi have been invaded by Abuja directed Igbo politicians. Initially they were appointed to big positions in Abuja and given the blank check to go and unseat these governors. It has been a running battle between Abuja based Igbo politicians and their own governors. We in Ohaneze have over the years intervened, and we have not been able to achieve any compromises. These governors and the advisors from Abuja have declared implacably their position. They are not ready to compromise. And specifically for Enugu, it used to be Chimaroke Nnamani, governor of Enugu, against Nwobodo. And Nwodo, was supporting Chimaroke, Nwodo - the Nsukka Group leader, Okwesilieze Nwodo, made it as secretary General of PDP. Governor Chimaroke, did not lobby for Nwodo to become Secretary General. Right now, the positions have changed. Now it is at daggers drawn. It is Nwodo who has gotten support from Nwobodo.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Nwobodo is supporting Nwodo?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. They are now fighting a Nnamani. All these are based on just ego and this come-back syndrome either by the governors or by the honorable members of the house who also want to come back. In the case of Abakiliki, Anyim was given all the support by the Obasanjo regime. So, that at this time the Anyim bandwagon should be able to corner some votes for Obasanjo, if Obasanjo chose to seek re-election. That was the plan. That was why Okadigbo had to go. Eventually, that also played out with great casualties amongst our people. That has worried us a lot.

And Ohaneze intervened in the case of Ebonyi, in the case of Enugu and we never got any results, not because we are not influential but because we thought when parties in conflict are so implacably posited, we allow them to play it out. Either we have a cohesive outcome or a resolution will be made by one party overwhelming the other. But then there is the issue of intervention. The federal government is bent on getting their way in not only Enugu, in Ebonbyi, but in Anambra, even in Abia despite that fact that these governors are not really performing according to the expectations of the people. So, that is the dangerous issue and the future is really fraught with great dangers. Ohaneze has a lot of limitations because we are dealing with political parties. We are no longer dealing with brother Igboman, we're dealing with their political parties and there are limits to influencing political decisions. So that is the issue. As I'm talking to you now, there are a lot of killings in Enugu. There is a lot of thugerry going on in Abakiliki on both sides and Umuahia, Abia, imposed by these turncoat ministers in Abuja. We are expecting a lot inflammation in the future.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Why do the majority of the Ohaneze leadership retire to places outside Igbo land? A Shehu Shagari retired to his Shagari village and ditto others, but our so called "Igbo leaders" retire to Lagos and lately to Abuja. Don't you think that is why some basic amenities are lacking in ala-Igbo? It is believed that if these Igbo who are in government feel they'd retire to their village, then they'll do their best to attract the most basic amenity to the place. Atiku Abubakar was less than six months in power when NITEL went to his little known village with a digital line. How does that compare with Ekwueme's four years in the same position?

Hon. Okocha: I totally agree with you. But I disagree that Ohaneze leaders retire to Abuja and Lagos. The chairman of Ohaneze Nd'Igbo, Justice Ozo Ozobu, resides in , same GRA where we have the Ohaneze headquarters, Arthur Nwankwo. Former director of the Biafran Bank of the Exchequer, the Biafran Central Bank, Dr. Sylvester Ugo, They are all living in Enugu. I don't see any visible Ohaneze leader living outside Enugu or Eastern Nigeria. Those are leaders of the Ohaneze, or was it Dr. Okigbo before he died, he had a house in Lagos but most of the time he was living in Enugu. But some Igbo politicians, former leaders, that could be correct for them. Even Ekwueme is resident at Oko, his village. He has the biggest house there even though at any moment now it may disappear because of erosion incursion.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Do you not worry that contrary to what some of our loud governors are saying, investment is actually going away from AlaIgbo?

Hon. Okocha: Yes. I worry because I have a crusade. In general, we are not satisfied with this government, not only because of the resources that are coming in, but because of how the resources are being used. The investment influence is not there because security, as you have noted, is not there. We have the Bakassi in Onisha; it is critical in Enugu State and Ebonyi. In the work force, there is no motivation. Most of the people in Igboland are not being paid, not teachers, not workers. The middle class is totally disappearing. We have Okada all over the place. I don't know why these governors are not concerned.

That is why Ohaneze has said, four years is enough. The Igbo is bidding for the presidency and again all public officers, including local governments, including members of the assembly, states, the national assembly, the senate, including governors, four years all of them should go away. That is the major area of their communique in Omuahia last month. I don't know if anybody has changed it. But for those of you who think that Ohaneze is conservative, I cannot say anything more radical than that. No body, no other group in Nigeria had been able to stand and say all these people should go away and allow new blood.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Ohaneze has an office in Enugu. Is that the only office you have?

Hon. Okocha: That is the only office we have.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Is that enough, and how do you coordinate you activities?

Hon. Okocha: That is where all the Igbo magic, all the Igbo industry comes in. We are hoping to improve on the services. We are hoping to get more computers, more facilities, more administrative executive officers, and volunteers to man our offices because of our expanding responsibilities, and that office in Enugu must be expanded in every ramification, not only in terms of personnel but in terms of information. We want to relate to Igbo in Australia, UK and America. For us to attain this lofty goal, this lofty interest, this lofty objective, we need to open up, we need to make use of our resources all over the world.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Here come the softie questions. Are you related to the J.J. Okocha who was just playing for the BiafraNigerian team in the World Cup?

Hon. Okocha: Is he related to me? Is he related to me?

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Okay, is he related to you?

Hon. Okocha: Is he related to me? That's my answer.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Okay, so there's no relation?

Hon. Okocha: Seriously, J.J. Okocha is an Enugu boy. But being a West Niger Igbo, when I was playing for Rangers, he had not come up. It was his brother, Emma Okocha (my name sake), who was playing for Vasco, that asked Christian Chukwu who asked him to come play for Rangers because if you haven't played for Rangers, you haven't started. So when I was leaving for the U.S., that is how he started. That's the mix-up. So, I when I went to Lagos, having played for Julius Berger and Nigeria, people mixed us up because we are from the same area, I am from Asaba and he is from Ogwashi Ukwu. All of us started in Enugu, Nnamdi Nwokocha who played in the World Cup. I'm the first Nigerian that came back from the U.S. and said that's the best player in the Nigeria, if not in Africa. People were saying oh that's because he is your brother. Look at him now. Look at the last World Cup. If we had Oliseh defending mid field, Okocha could be released up front. We could have had more pep in our offensive. We would have been playing like Cameroon, Senegal. But Okocha was dropped to play defensive midfield and there was no firepower up front, nobody to give complementary attacks to Julius Aghahowa. So there was no one there. So I'm subscribing to the view that the coach should resign honorably.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Honorably? Oh he's been removed. They took him out as coach and put him somewhere in the back office.

Hon. Okocha: They should have allowed the other man to continue. He could have won the World Cup.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Still on soccer, what year did you play for the Enugu Rangers and for BiafraNigeria?

Hon. Okocha: I was there, playing for the university, that was 79 - 81. I played for Julius Berger the same year. For the World Cup 75 we were only two. Do you know Forster Ikeagu, who just died? Obi Okoye, the Nigerian football center halfback for many was our coach in CKC. I was in Father Tiko's team. And the people playing our soccer now is Cameroon. We played power football. See Cameroon, they were just unlucky. If they had beaten Ireland, they could have gone very far. They don't waste time. They don't have something like Kanu's type of football. Kanu is so soft. We need power football. We need Sango from Cameroon, big boys. See their height, they eat only plantains. Do you know they pound it? I know that because I used to be there. And after dealing with you they take you to their clubs, see their girls dancing makossa. Usually they bring us to the club before the match. When we finish dancing they just beat us 6-0.

So Nigerian football has been improved upon. The Africans believe in strength, stamina and speed. That's the only advantage we have against Europeans. We cannot be playing like Brazil. J.J. Okocha and Kanu, no. We can mix it up. There was no speed, no attack. Senegal has combined it but we cannot afford it. Senegal has about five finesse players that can let go power, but Cameroon is total power.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Now, the biggest softie; it seems that you would make a good candidate. Why aren't you running for president?

Hon. Okocha: I am not running for president because the Western Igbos are not united yet on issues. There are certain issues that Western Igbos need to resolve, 1) Western Igbos since 1939, when Enugu was the capital of the Southern Protectorate, it was the vision of the colonial master that the Asaba and Abor divisions should be carved into the same place. But, because of their minority disadvantages under the Western Region, it has been a constant agitation. In 1975, the Minna province woke up and started agitating for Niger State, that was a State we campaigned for. In 1956, at the Amai Declaration, Western Igbos also asked for a separate identity. Groups from there have been asking to be carved into their own identity. That is why you call them and some of them say they are not Igbos. It is for all of us to ask those people why they are saying they are not Igbos. During the war, they fought the Biafran war more than any group. They were the people that went over to Onitsha and Nnewi and never gave an inch. The Biafran army collapsed through the Southern sectors. Port Harcourt, Aba, Umuahia, etc.

BiafraNigeriaWorld: Hon. Emma Okocha, thank you for taking the time to speak with BiafraNigeriaWorld. BiafraNigeriaWorld wishes you luck in your bid for the governorship or a senate seat in Delta State.


END.